Whilst I agree that the time is long overdue for more effective action on rural (and urban) crime I must take issue with the penultimate paragraph of John Sheard's article.

To say that "Should [a farmer or country dweller] take action to protect himself or his family, he is likely to end up in jail for longer than the criminal" is at the very least misleading and appears to based on (some of) the evidence of a SINGLE case.

The use of reasonable force in protecting lives and property was still justified in English Law last time I looked.

I honestly think, that the forestry should be legal to ride motorbikes in. I currently own a Honda xl 125 (trails bike) and there is nowhere I can ride it. If you didnt know already, half of the village goes riding there anyway, so, you better make it legal. Also, people from our village carry on taking the signs out and dumping them so you might want to reconcider that point aswell.

I have been reading previous correspondence on this topic with considerable interest, in particular the epistle received on the 30th June 03 from a Mr Wilson, the National Chairman of GLASS. Who, or rather, what is GLASS? Whatever that organisation represents, it's membership should instruct their Chairman that when making a point he should contain his input to facts rather than wild exaggeration. He says that he 'regularly gets pushed into the hedge' when driving his Land Rover in the Dales. I can't comment on that statement but would say that I have been driving around the Dales for well in excess of 40 years, the last 10 in a 4x4 and I've never had to take to the hedge yet. Come to that, I've never seen one of Mr Wilson's 7ton 'monster tractors' there either. Many 4/5ton ones, but the large 7ton ones are of no use in the Dales and are confined to the arable country. I was always taught that if you want anyone to heed your opinion it is essential to get your facts right. By the way, what is an 'experimental TRO' as refered to by Mr Wilson.

It is a pity that someone who has reached the apparently exalted position of National Chairman of GLASS finds himself only able to make a point on Dalenet by resorting to exaggeration and inaccuracy coupled with downright bad manners towards Mr Sheard.

On the other hand Shaun O'Brien (21July03)writes a far more reasoned letter. I agree with a lot of what he said but would ask for the source of the reports he refers to when stating that agricultural machines cause more damage to green lanes than 4x4s and trail bikes. I merely ask him to bear in mind that the drivers of those machines are doing so to make living and not playing big boy games like the majority of 4x4 drivers and motor cyclists. I also ask him to bear in mind that the ground pressure per square inch under a tractor wheel is considerably less than that of the average 4x4 simply due to the size of the wheels and tyres. That's why they make them so large and wide.

All in all regarding this topic, isn't it a case of the old story of the ill behaved few spoiling it for the well behaved majority?

What a brilliant insentive to bring back pond areas of natural beuty, I own an old mill dam that nature has reclaimed and took back, but it still holds its history of engineering brilliance as the water still flows freely all be it underground and through the old sluice gate that still defies time and holds hundreds of years of memories, my dreams are to excavate half of the dam and pipe along to the sluice gate , reflooding it creating (or replacing) an area approx 50 metres 25 metres and about 1 meter deep in the middle with a new "dam wall" and waterfall driving a water wheel creating its own electricity to light it up, what agreat feature but most important is the wildlife it would attract, ok if your a millionaire but im not (anymore), spend too much time in the pub dreaming, i have tried various angles to doing this and it all comes back to one thing, MONEY. Isnt there someone with a digger that wants 100 ton of soil and will take it away leaving me with a big hole that will fill with water in a breath, isn't there a trust of some kind that would help do this, seems a shame the government dont give grants cos it is a butiful place and would be even more so with water in, oh well, id better start saving up my hard earned pennies and maybe one day my dreams will happen.

The best friend we ever had in Europe was Charles de Gaulle. He didn't want us in Europe, for reasons which, in the light of historical developments, showed a great perception. I want no part of this crooked, corrupt, politically correct, rotten, lousy, European Union. I believe that we should put the "Great" back in Britain by standing on our own feet, with our true friends (not many in Europe). And if Blair bans foxhunting, I hope that it provides the spark for a much greater rebellion - against the nauseating political correctness that is ruining this country. I'll be there on the battle lines and I hope that somebody in the mould of Oliver Cromwell emerges to lead us. We really do need somebody as ruthless as him, to carry this country kicking and screaming back to where it belongs.

Its nice to read unbiased and balanced reproting when you mention 4x4 owners! Yet again they are branded the Devils Spawn of the countryside. There are no mention of the good work done by various off road clubs in maintaining the lanes. I do take my Lada 4x4 off road (it cost £500 not £50000) purley to enjoy the countryside. Often I take my father with me who is disabled and would not be able to see the views without the car. There is a lack of mention of riders who refuse to stop for walkers are anyone else, there is no mention of walkers who casually drop their litter or the walkers who let their dogs roam free and foul the countryside without being cleared up ( there are sections of the Ridgeway which could be called dog turd alley)or the owners who allow their dogs to worry the livestock near the lanes, perhaps we should ban dogs from the green lanes as well,and the consumption of food and drink. Yes, I agree that there is an element within the 4x4 fraternity which do damage to the lanes but why do you insist on tarring us with the same brush. I travel on the lanes at no more than 5mph, stop to allow walkers pass by and if the track becomes too difficult, either turn around or find an alternative route around the obstacle. The problem lies with inexperienced offroaders who buy their Freelander/Discovery and believe they can go anywhere-thanks to corporate advertising. These cars go off road on road tyres and have no recovery gear should they get stuck. The inevitable happens-they get stuck and resort to full revs and flying mud, where if the route was properly looked at, they could probably not get stuck. I have witnessed this happen in the past. The mention that agricultural vehicles are stopped from travelling to their fields because of the activity of off roaders-I find this hard to believe. The radius of a tractor tyre is far greater than even the largest 4x4 tyre and the clearance of the tractor far greater than even a severly modified off roader. It has been shown by various reports that agricultural machinary are responsible for a larger proportion of damage than the 4x4's.

Last weekend I was travelling around the local lanes and over the whole weekend I met up with no other 4x4's, 2 horses and about 12 walkers, none of which complained to me abut my prescence on the lane. If I want extreme off road then I pay my £25 and go to an off road centre. I would rather use the lanes, park up after a few miles and enjoy the countryside. When you consider of all the rights of way in the UK, only 5% is accesible for 4x4, 22% is accesible for riders and the rest is for walkers, surely there is more than enough land for us all to enjoy the countryside and actually (Heaven forbid) work together so that the maintainence of the countryside can be enjoyed by all. if we all worked together rather than bickering against each other just think what could be achieved. One day you may need a 4x4 to help you out when you are walking-perhaps you have a fall and sprain or break a bone or worse, have a stroke or heart attack ( I am not wishing this on anyone, the quickest way to return to civilisation or a hospital from the countryside would be by 4x4 and there may be one of the so called bully wagon owneers would stop and help you out. Bear that in mind when you are on your next walk and are cursing the 4x4 brigade.

I note that now and then 'anonymous' views are posted on these pages. If any who has an opinion to air AND a sensible reason to remain anonymous, I would be interested to hear that reason. Otherwise, I must say that anonymous opinions deserve no respect. (The same applies to people who choose to cover their faces in public, such as IRA and certain ethnic minorities). I must therefore be prepared to afford some respect, but not much, to the views expressed by Mr Dave Wilson of Manchester (National Chairman of something),re 4x4s on green lanes. His use of the word 'ranting', in describing John Sheard's views, is much more applicable to his own essay. And the fact that he has aimed his tirade so exclusively at Mr Sheard overlooks the considerable weight of opinion offered by other people in agreement with Mr Sheard's views.

Why not an English Assembly? I believe that, shorn of the inbuilt Scottish & Welsh Socialist majority, a true English parliament/assembly would have an inbuilt Conservative majority; which is why our leaders are quite happy to promote Scottish & Welsh assemblies, but want to manufacture artificial regions, based on conurbations, for any English equivalent. "If you are not certain of winning, alter the rules"!

Having lived and worked in the dales for over 20 years I find it hard to believe that john Sheard has only just seen the writing on the wall.

Local democracy is a thing of the past - no one wants to get involved in politics anymore, they've had enough of sleaze and mismanagement.

The only way you'll get me to vote now is if they have a little box on the voting slip saying 'none of the above'. Whatever happens, if it is what the government wants they will get it. if the odds are against them they wont bother with a vote, just implement their grand designs anyway. Personally I'm voting with my feet and planning to leave England

I'm sick of double standards whatever political colour they're painted. Gone are the days when those that lived in the Dales worked in the Dales now people move in from afar and complain about local industry, clocks chiming, and wagons using the roads. It doesn't matter that they were plying their trade long before these people were born. All that matters is NOT IN MY BACK YARD!

My opinion is that people get the Government they deserve, be it parish, town, county or regional council it matters not. As they say nowt is certain but death and taxes whatever happens we'll pay more so why worry. You never know, someone from the urban areas might just improve our lot - it cant get much worse.

I really like your website, though think the article saying that only townies are against fox-hunting is rather crazy. I was born & bred in the Yorkshire hills & today live in the little town of Hebden Bridge, but have always thought fox-hunting utterly unfair. So, ey up Mr Sheard, careful what y' say: if there's one thing town & city-folks are good at, it's lying. Be careful not to fall prey to the City-mind habits too much...

Keep up y' good website!

Although Mr Sheard may be correct in believing that the governments plans to increase the provision for renewable energy sources is hot air much of the rest of his article is incorrect. Nuclear power stations emit large amounts of radiation and heat into the surrounding environment, which is manifested by the fact that fish only otherwise found in tropical waters can be found in the seas off Sellafield. In addition to this the statement that no one has been killed by a nuclear power station is in glaring omission of the Chernobyl disaster that, although not in this country, still kills people to this day. Surely it must be agreed that some windmills, which are not as unsightly as the network of pylons that already zig-zag the country and do not cause any pollution are a much better alternative. Also in reference to the 'excruciatingly high cost' a large wind turbine only costs in the region of £8000 and once installed costs virtually nothing to run. So the government subsidies may run out but once the systems are in place they will be making pure profit and I am sure that if they were required to do so the energy companies could easily pay them back.

very sad to hear that this is now being sold i spent last summer there with my daughter who has downs syndrom and we loved it the peace was amazing and we had a cabin on the loch was going to go back this year . very true the fact that a place so wonderfull could be just let go .. sad

Why do we have to split the fox-hunting debate into "rural" versus "townies" when it is really a matter of personal concience about cruelty. I have been "rural" all my life, but am againt the cruelty of fox-hunting. There is nothing wrong with the spectacle - it's just the reason for it that is questionable. There are other more humane ways of curbing the fox population and why should this stop hunting, anyway? There is drag hunting for example which could replace the cruelty and which would keep the industry alive. Why can't we have a sensible rational debate looking at all these other options instead of getting so emotional as to split on "all or nothing" and "rural versus townies".

Dear Mr Sheard,

Firstly I apologise for the untimely late arrival of my missive, you must have hoped that the fall out from this had all but stopped.

However I cannot agree with the majority of your selfish ranting, except for the bit about everyone enjoying the countryside. Your scare mongering over blown use of adjectives to describe four wheel drives should be laughable. Where is the biggest concentration of 4x4 ownership to be found? In your Dales neighbourhood. Where is it I regularly get pushed into a hedge when driving my 'bullyboy' Land Rover? In your Dales neighbourhood, by a 7 ton four-wheel drive tractor.

Your whole piece seems designed to centre around the problem of people not being 'local', and disturbing your fishing. You have completely missed the point that the routes you refer to are roads, not footpaths. Furthermore, how you can possibly claim that farmers can't get to their fields when they drive the affore mentioned 7-ton, 10 ft high monster tractors and I drive a normal, every day, run of the mill Land Rover is pure fantasy. So much so, I actually wondered if you live in the Dales at all. In short your piece was full of inaccuracies.

I'm happy to debate the issue with you at length however I feel you are beyond middle ground and that no amount of inteligent reasoned discussion would ever convince you that we have a legitmate right to be there, to enjoy the countryside we have, responsibly and with due dilegence to other users.

You have failed to note that the experimental TRO that was put in place is based on conjecture, has no factual grounds and could fall completely if challenged. Leaving you, and your fellow local Dale tax payers footing the bill for an ill concieved, badly executed plan.

You also fail to note that the majority of these bikes and four-wheel drive cars fill up with fuel, stay over night in B&B's, shop in town. Even drop their families off to shop etc etc. Have you bothered to ask them if they don't mind loosing the business, or are you just concerned about your fishing?

Yours disapointedly on behalf of the membership of GLASS

Dave Wilson
National Chairman

Dear CPRE, Yorkshire and Dales - I thought you might like a copy of my e-mail dated today, Thursday 19 June, 2003, to Tim Collins and others. Unfortunately, my e-mail didn't get through to him, but did to others. Can't anyone come up with the money to buy that Post Office? Pressure should be put firmly on English Heretage!

To: tim.collins@parliament
CC: cumbria@englishheritage.org.uk, northumberland@englishheritage.org.uk, east-midlands@englishheritage.org.uk, paul.bryan@englishheritage.org.uk

[Yes, I know you've been campaigning, Mr Collins, but I thought you would like to see this.]

Is English Heritage going to buy the above Post Office in Kendal, called Beast Bank Post Office, owner Mike Molloy, used by author Mr Cunliffe?

It will be lost forever, if someone doesn't put in an offer. He's closing it today, because the Government is transferring pensions, and other benefits, to bank accounts.

It could be used as a sweet shop/tourist attraction - selling Postman Pat sweets, cakes and crockery, stamps and posting letters with a special postmark, showing Pat and his cat, Jesse. A nice, big black and white cat could be rescued from a local Cat Rescue Centre and installed in a basket on the counter. It could even be run as a tea shop, keeping all the accoutrements of a Post Office.

The possibilities are endless. Why can't people use their imagination?

As a distant(but fond)admirer of, and occasional visitor to, the Yorkshire Dales I agree with what you say. There are some people who are never happy unless they are making their presence constantly felt. A small minority, but these days such people seem to have completely free rein. So, Parks authority and County Council,please don't be intimidated by the bully boys and their lawyers,go for it and stand up, on our behalf, to these inadequates and show offs.

Nothing would please me more than to see these smart alec lawyers come unstuck with their endless judicial reviews etc and mocking ordinary people who don't have £50,000 to spend on a four wheel drive and don't want to be a nuisance to others anyway. Perhaps if a judge ordered these gentlemen of the law personally to pay the costs of such proceedings, it might curb their appetites and greed!

good luck!

Edward Heath was the traitor of the 20th Century. He lied to the British people and deceived them into thinking that the Common Market was all about trade. He gave away our fishing industry as our price for joining. All along, he admits openly, he had a federal Europe in mind.

Tony Blair must already be the forerunner as the traitor of the 21st Century. His craven and cowardly attitude towards his European masters beggars belief. It prompted me to recently send him a white feather for his failure to fight for our nation.

Let us all resist as strongly as we are able any moves to further integrate us into the diabolical EU and support every movement and initiative that will fight to keep us from surrenfering our sovereignty and nationhood.

I myself am a keen motorcyclist who has in the past enjoyed the national parks of this coutry via green lane use. I myself believe that whilst some degree of damage was caused by my using the track that that damage was not excessive.

Consider this, how many off roaders are there in this country who regularly use these tracks? Compare this number the the ramblers who also use them and (in my personal experience) leave litter and often bring with them dogs (who leave their own litter) and seem to complain about everything (including the cyclists who often seem to be used to add weight to their cause to ban the motor vehicles).

How is it that damage caused by a recreational 4x4 or motorcycle can be distinguished from damage caused by a tractor, farmer's 4x4 or quad. HOw come all green lane damage is always heaped at the door or the recreational user?

I myself cannot see why it is that we cannot all live an let live in this country but instead seem hell bent on banning activities which are of no interest to us. Consider the hunreds of thousands of miles of footpaths in this country upon which vehicles are not permitted. If a rambler etc. does not wish to see a motor vehicle then avoid the green lanes. It should be easy enough to do, there arem't that many of them!

Oh dear, so very typical of these "offcumdens". Perhaps a little carefully planned publicity, like some video footage on TV to "show these people" in action would be effective. If not, a few weel taken photographs of these peole at these meetings. It's amazing how a littlle "publicity" can change people's minds, especially offcundens!!

There has never been, nor will be, any chance that Britain will lead in Europe. For those interested the lead was, and is, taken by the Berlin-Brussels-Paris Axis. The Common Agricultural Policy Budget for the next 10 years, as you so rightly point out, was fixed in a private meeting between the leaders of Germany and France, without consulting their fellow members. It never was set up to help British agriculture or safeguard the British countryside. I think, bearing in mind the EU's perverse attitude to our farmers, countryside, livestock and, from the outset, fishermen, British waters and fish-stocks, that one feels only damage and harm has been the result of belonging to this incredibly expensive club. A club which is now to become Britain's next very expensive government, via the new EU Constitution. If Tony Blair signs this, and it is ratified, he locks us in as a state of a new country, without our true knowledge or consent, Therefore, I think, Constitutionally, illegally. If we care about our country, and it's future as an independent, free nation able to safeguard it's people, resources, and countryside - without asking somebody else's permission to do so(and be turned down); then we must demand a Referendum, and vote in The Daily Mail's Ballot on June 12th in less than two weeks time.

Please stand up for Britain and be counted.

There is some truth in this article but many people coming in from the outside do enormous good for the local community. In our new development many of the people buying are locals. There is far too much instant hatred for people coming into a village if not racism with some local people. You always get pains whereever you are and I'm sure there is more to this story than we are hearing here. You must be careful not to tar everybody with the same brush as a few people in some village 15 years ago.